[xx CURVE xx]

so....
what are you?
what do you believe?
where did we come from?
where are we going?

i'm born catholic, force feed religion all my life, cathlic school all the way till highschool.....

and i don't believe a bit of it.................VIC.

[R31DY]

It's all a load of tosh........

[Arizona Vic]

WonDeringCurve, on Sep 1 2006, 02:30 PM, said:

and i don't believe a bit of it.................VIC.

CURVE! ! ! Don't get me started...

[xx CURVE xx]

Arizona Vic, on Sep 1 2006, 04:44 PM, said:

CURVE! ! ! Don't get me started...

OH look at the pretty red START button.... WONDERING what it does.

This post has been edited by WonDeringCurve: 01 September 2006 - 09:52 PM

[Arizona Vic]

WonDeringCurve, on Sep 1 2006, 02:47 PM, said:

OH look at the pretty red start button.... WONDERING what it does.

huh? use layman terms for ol' Vic...

[xx CURVE xx]

Arizona Vic, on Sep 1 2006, 04:49 PM, said:

huh? use layman terms for ol' Vic...

means i'm trying to get you started!....freaking START button not working!

[L0CI]

Religion is the root of all evil .

I'm happy to be an atheist (sp?). I don't feel the need to believe in a 'higher power' just to cope with my own mortality, thank you.

[Arizona Vic]

Alright Curve,

I'll let you mock me if you choose. Here we go...

First off, I am no different than you. I also was raised in the Catholic church. However, when I was about 21 years of age I began to question certain beliefs in my life. I was going through some awful stuff with my ex GF (learned this acronym recently). Began to cry out for help in my depression and God moved in my life... (long story, maybe another time)

So to answer your question:

1) What are you? (Christian)

2) What do you believe? ~short answer~ (the Bible)

3) Where did we come from? (We were created in the image of God, however, sin has marred that creation - just look around)

4) Where are we going? ~ It's not a question of 'where are we going', but whether we will have eternal life with God.

[XI R3CLAIMER IX]

They say religion is the starting cause of all wars

I personally don't believe in religion.... but that doesn't stop me asking god for help when i'm in a tough spot and need help (not even realising what I am doing) so does this mean I kinda believe in a god? Who knows?

This post has been edited by Stuart: 01 September 2006 - 10:21 PM

[Arizona Vic]

L0CI, on Sep 1 2006, 03:12 PM, said:

Religion is the root of all evil .

I'm happy to be an atheist (sp?). I don't feel the need to believe in a 'higher power' just to cope with my own mortality, thank you.

L0CI ~ It's the "love of money" that is the root of all evil.

I know a lot of people who can't cope (whether religious or not). Some turn to drugs, others alcohol... Most hide from their problems, and they just get worse.

[Arizona Vic]

Stuart, on Sep 1 2006, 03:19 PM, said:

They say religion is the starting cause of all wars

I personally don't believe in religion.... but that doesn't stop me asking god for help when i'm in a tough spot and need help (not even realising what I am doing) so does this mean I kinda believe in a god? Who knows?

Stuart (I think so...)

I believe that every person has a measure of faith... What we put our trust in, is up to us.

[L0CI]

Arizona Vic, on Sep 1 2006, 11:26 PM, said:

I know a lot of people who can't cope (whether religious or not). Some turn to drugs, others alcohol... Most hide from their problems, and they just get worse.

Very true, but imo religion was only "invented" as a means to hold a society together. Look at the ten commandments. Don't kill, steal, covert thy neighbours ox or whatever and so on. Rules a society requires to function and not tear itself apart. Is it coincedence that the western world is now largely 'godless' and overrun with problems? Nope.

I should state now that I'm not against religion, or anyones beliefs, as I tend to get a little carried away on this subject . Anything I post is what I believe and not intended to offend anyone who strongly believes in god, as is easily done.

[Arizona Vic]

I knew you were feisty!!!

No offense taken bro... I wish I could sit down with you and visit. I am sure it would be a lot of fun. Debate is a good way to learn (as long as people don't get ugly)

P.S. I like the "neighbor's ox" comment.

[XI R3CLAIMER IX]

Well I think Wondering's done it, the ultimate debate... I can see this topic hanging around for a long time.

[Arizona Vic]

Stuart, on Sep 1 2006, 03:53 PM, said:

Well I think Wondering's done it, the ultimate debate... I can see this topic hanging around for a long time.

Stuart, are you kidding...

This thread won't make it very far. People hate to talk about religion. It makes them feel uncomfortable or defensive.

[R31DY]

My views are exactly that of Loci's. Were all here "accidentally", for want of a better word. We evolved into what we are, it just so happens a few people decided to write a few books a few thousand years ago that everyone beleived......but the people who beleived them back then didn't know any better.....the world was flat back then remember . When we die IT'S THE END, for us at least. Don't worry though, soon enough the world will end alltogether, nobody's had the balls to "push the button" yet though

[L0CI]

Arizona Vic, on Sep 1 2006, 11:56 PM, said:

This thread won't make it very far. People hate to talk about religion. It makes them feel uncomfortable or defensive.

Which is a pity, as it's one of the most interesting debates to be had.

I Reidy I, on Sep 2 2006, 12:18 AM, said:

My views are exactly that of Loci's.

Get off my traaaaaain!!
ps I bet you they're not. I never said I didn't believe we weren't created (was that one too many double negative?), I just don't think it was by a 'god', at least not in the terms that most people consider god to be. I've said too much already, and I'm not saying more unless pushed a whole long way, 'cos I sound like a total fruitcake when I get going

Actually one of the most worrying theories I've heard of late is the old reincarnation thing. It goes something along the lines of that, although you have many (infinite?) lives, they're all actually the same one kind of. You're doomed to make the same mistakes in future lives as the ones you have in this one. So you better get it right THIS time! Hope that one's not right...

[ShagDoubt]

That'll be 3 Humanists then (myself included).
Beliefs include; no "supreme being", Darwinian evolution, probability of life elsewhere in the Universe etc...

Saying that though i do have some belief in Karma and strongly feel that one should do unto others lest you end up in the doo-doo!

Like everything else, i believe religion taken to a moderate level is benign, gives a lot of folks hopes and stability in their lives and provided a sound base and set of "ground rules" for many cultures.

Fundamentalist and fanatical beliefs do the opposite.

[Mush xx]

When you have a near death experience like I have on a few occasions now (I have actually "died" 3 times now), your beliefs and your attitude towards people change. I have actually seen a very bright white light at the end of a tunnel, before this happened I had no religion. Anyone that has gone through similar will probably say the same thing, it's hard to explain unless it's happened to you.

I believe in souls and reincarnation. I actually believe my dad who died 7 yrs before my car accident actually saved me from death.

Other people may not believe what you do so, this is a difficault topic to talk about because people will go one way or another.

I think you do need some kind of religion and everyone needs something to believe in.

Do you believe in parallel universes or life on other planets?

[Uberjim]

Wow, what a great (and meaningful) thread!! To answer your question Curve, I am Christian. I believe in the word of God (the Bible). God created us. We are all going to one of two places when we die (I bet you can guess what they are).

I would love to debate this topic. I don't see how someone could believe that we are here by "accident". I am scientific in my thinking about this. The THEORY of evolution doesn't hold water in describing our origin. We evolved from a single celled organism? Where did that organism come from? It came from a spontaneous reaction between light (energy) and elements in water on our planet (that have never been replicated). Where did that planet come from? It came from the instability of the mass of all universes, which initially started as an object the size of a large marble, which was compacted by dark matter (makes up 90% of all matter in existence), which eventually exploded. Where did that "marble" come from? It came from the inescapable gravitational forces of the collection of dark matter sucking in all particles of all matter in existence (the principle in which a black hole operates but on a much larger scale). Where did the dark matter come from? Where did the light energy come from? No answer.

Evolution is hard to dispute. I don't know if I believe we came from monkeys, but I do believe that living things evolve over time to adapt to their environments. God gave us that ability. It wouldn't make sense to make something that is to survive millions of years on a changing planet and not give it the ability to adapt. You can look at the evolution of man from "cave man" to what we are today. Natural selection decides what attributes are beneficial and which ones are not based on the environment that species inhabits. People are born with prehensile tails, which are surgically removed at birth, six fingers, three arms, conjoinment, etc. We look at these as genetic "defects", but this is evolution at its best. Most religious people look at evolution as a bad word, but I don't think it is. God gave the ability to evolve, which in my opinion is truly amazing.

The argument of the bible being written without divine guidance doesn't hold up either. Just pretend for a moment that you are 16 and single. I want you to take out an imaginary piece of paper and write down eight predictions concerning your future. You are to write down 1) exactly when you will have a baby, 2) where that baby will be born, 3) what the babies father will be doing for a living, 4) where the baby will be raised, 5) when he will die, 6) how he will die, 7) where he will die, 8) and what will happen to him after his death. Sounds like a tough task, right? Do you know what the probability is that all eight of your predictions will come true? State of Texas (268,601 square miles), 3 feet deep with quarters, paint one red, mix them all up, blindfold yourself, walk into state, reach down and pick out one quarter and it be that red one. But, that is exactly what the Old Testament predicted about Jesus. That's just 8 of the over 300 dealing with Jesus. Let alone the other 1,700 prophecies. These predictions were made hundreds of years before Jesus was even born! It is statistically IMPOSSIBLE to have predicted so many events so accurately without divine guidance.

No other religious book comes close to matching the historical accuracy of the Bible. Not even a little. Don't believe ME, research it yourself.

A simple fact. People USUALLY deny religion because their lifestyle choices don't correspond to its teachings (homosexuality, excessive drinking, drugs, adultery, etc.). In an age of moral relativism (the actions of the masses delegate what is right and wrong) it is easier to say something is untrue (the teachings of the Bible) than to admit you are not doing the right thing(s).

I am by no means trying to relay a "holier than thou" attitude, so please don't take me that way. I am FAR from it. The fact is that the scientific evidence lacks any disproof of a God and the statistical evidence gives overwhelming proof of the divinity of the Bible, which in turn strongly supports the probability of a God. I don't believe in the Bible because that was what I was taught, but rather, because it would be silly not to with the evidence in support of it. If the bible is indisputable, then so is the fact that there is a God who inspired its writing.

Keep 'em coming.